Episode 1: The Birth Of The Seasonal Tokens With Ruadhan (founder & lead developer)

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Seasonal Tokens Podcast, where Polar interviews people so you can do more investing and less gambling. 

Polar: Hello, everyone. It is Polar here with Seasonal Tokens podcast. Welcome. In the first episode, I'm very happy to be here with you, and its amazing pleasure for me to have for our first guest, the creator and the founder of the Seasonal Tokens. So welcome, Ruadhan. 

Ruadhan: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. 

Polar: Yeah, thank you very much for accepting my invitation. I hope that you have some fun today. I have prepared a lot of questions for you because I believe people should know more about Seasonal Tokens and, of course, more about you. 

Ruadhan: Okay, that sounds great. 

Polar: Yeah. So, in that matter, let me start with the first question, which I suppose will not surprise you. So, can you introduce yourself and your background with a few words? 

Ruadhan: Yes. So, I started off in physics and then I moved into neuroscience and then from there into finance. And I worked in cryptography as well for a few years. So, I have a background that's good from the point of view of understanding cryptocurrencies and how they interact with markets and so on. So, yeah, that's basically my background. 

Polar: Okay, that sounds very interesting. I didn't want to ask you this, but what's actually the relation between neuroscience and crypto?  

Ruadhan: Relationship between neuroscience and crypto? Well, there is actually there's a relationship between neuroscience and economics, which is that the cells in the brain that cause neurotransmitters between each other, those neurotransmitters are mostly sugars or they're derived from sugars. They're substances like glutamate and so on. These are essentially sending the little bits of energy back and forth between the cells, energy in the form of sugar. So, there's kind of an economy that's going on in the brain, and that's in a certain sense that's like a financial market where there’s information being transmitted and there's also an economic component that measures, in a sense, the value of that, which is whether or not it's worth sending a sugar to another cell in order to send a signal. So, there's a relationship between finance and neuroscience. Not so much between cryptography and neuroscience. There are some people who say that the brain is encoding, and decoding things and it has schemes for taking visual or sensory or perceptual data and encoding it into some specific format, which is something like cryptography. But that's all very speculative and we don't actually have a clear decoding of signals in the brain yet. 

Polar: Yeah, I didn't expect this answer. I think that we have the first news in the podcast. Like for the first time we have found the relation between neuroscience and crypto. I thought that no one has ever expected this, that such a thing actually exists, but I believe that what is happening in technology is very much related to the nature, and we are just discovering the nature in the technology or something like that. 

Ruadhan: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's true. 

Polar: Actually, this reminds me of a company, I don't remember the name, but they have been spending a lot of time researching the habits and the life of different animals. For example, ants. And they have discovered amazing ways to actually do things more effectively by implementing things that ants are doing in our real life. 

Ruadhan: Interesting

Polar: Yeah. So, they have even created something like a notebook that actually has all these discoveries. And you can implement this in your business, which can help you to actually innovate more because you are implementing strategies that people are not using because they haven't heard about them and they're only part of the nature. So, I think that you have explained it very well, this connection, and it's another, I think, proof that actually the nature has already created everything that we need. We just need to discover how to implement it in the best possible way for us as humans, don't you think? 

Ruadhan: Absolutely, yeah. So, life has been around on Earth for 3 billion years, so it's had plenty of time to experiment and find all the technologies. So, biology is doing very advanced things and we don't understand them all yet. 

Polar: Yeah, absolutely. I'm a nature person and I believe that everything is written in the nature. We just need the eyes and probably the right knowledge in order to be able to read it. Something like the cryptography that you mentioned, but in a very difficult language that may take us many years before we discover what we should know and probably what we shouldn't know. 

Ruadhan: Yup, definitely. And it is incredibly complicated if you look at what's going on inside a single cell just trying to if you just try to draw a chart of all the proteins that interact and all the genes and when they get activated and what controls them and so on, the results is incredibly horrifically complicated and it's too complicated for a human mind to understand in its voluntarily. So, yeah, there's some very complicated things going on in biology. 

Polar: Yeah, I'm so sorry for this small change of the topic, but I think that this relation is very important for people to know about and think more about it when they're in the nature, because I think that all the answers to our questions are actually in the nature. Anyway, my next question, of course, is like, we are talking about neuroscience, cryptography, and things like that, but how did you actually come up with the idea of seasonal tokens? 

Ruadhan: So that's actually interesting because it's related to nature as well. So, there are agricultural commodities, and they have seasonality, so they're predictably expensive at certain times of the year, usually when harvest seasons or times when they're produced in large quantities. And they're less expensive at other times of the year. Sorry, so they are more expensive, but sometimes less expensive at other times of the year. And this is predictable. So, this seasonality is something that's desirable from an investment point of view because you can anticipate the changes in price, and you can trade the commodities and you can make a profit. But the problem with seasonality that you find in agricultural commodities is that it tends to be the case that everything is produced at the same time. And it's like this with the market as well. There are market cycles, but it tends to be the case that everything does well at the same time, but everything does badly at the same time. So, what you would really like in an ideal investment or an ideal collection of investments that you could use in a system is to have a price that goes up predictably at a certain time. And then when that's finished going up. There's another price that is just starting to go up so that you can switch your investment from the one which has just gone up to the one which is just about to go up. And if you can keep doing that, then you'll have an investment that's continually doing well. So that would be like if it was the case in nature that, say, for example, apples did well at the beginning of the year and then oranges did well three months later, and then grapes did well sometime after that. If you could switch your investment from one to the other, then you could have an investment in whatever commodity is always going up in price. So that would be desirable. But it's hard to find examples of investments like that that form a sequential, predictable sequence where one goes up in price right after another. It's hard to find that in nature and it's hard to find it in stock market. But what you can do is you can synthesize cryptocurrencies and you can build a seasonality into them. And so that's what I've done with seasonal tokens. Basically, I've organized it so that spring will tend to go up in price and then summer will tend to go up and then autumn and then winter until you can switch your investment from one to the next. 

Polar: From what I understand, it sounds to me like the dream of every trader to know when the price is going up and when the price is going down because you can plan your investment. Isn't this what we actually want in all of our investments? 

Ruadhan: Yes, it is. That's exactly what we want. And it's hard to get in another investment. It was kind of a discovery of mine that it's possible to do this with cryptocurrencies. 

Polar: Yeah, it definitely sounds like out of the norm. So, it's very interesting how you have even gotten to this idea that this is possible. 

Ruadhan: Yeah, so I wasn't sure that it was. Originally, I was trying to make a copy of bitcoin that could be used. Bitcoin once every four years it goes up in price. After the habit takes place, supply gets cut and have and then market needs to adjust. Over the course of the next year, the price rises, but then it stops rising and will often start to fall. And we've seen that happen again and again, including recently. So, what would be good would be to have another coin that you could switch from Bitcoin to this other coin. And if this coin was just like a copy of Bitcoin, but was just delayed by a year, for example, then that would mean that when Bitcoin is going up over the year following it's having, then after it reaches its peak, you could switch to this other coin and it would just be beginning to rise in price because of its having. But you can't do that because you can't just conjure another version of Bitcoin into existence, because bitcoin is maybe half a trillion-dollar market cap, and this other coin would need to have a similar market cap in order to be able to fulfill this function. But what you can do is you can make four new coins and four new tokens and basically arrange them in this way. And then they all started off with the same market cap, which is zero initially, but they grow together, and they stay in the system, and they're perfectly sized for one another and so on. So, can you remind me of the question once again? 

Polar: Yeah. So how you have actually come up with the idea to create something like that? 

Ruadhan: Right, right. Yes. The original motivation was because I was looking at my own Bitcoin investment and I was aware of that in 2022 and 2023 it was not going to be good. 2020 would be a good year, or the end of 2020 and the beginning of 2021 and so on. Those will be good because the price will be responding to the having that happened halfway through 2020. But after that it wasn't going to do so well. So, I could see this coming. So as early as maybe 2019, I was thinking that I needed to do something to avoid losing a lot of money in this upcoming bitcoin crash. So, the options were to sell the bitcoins for dollars, which is something that I didn't want to do. One of the reasons, is that I would have to register a capital gain and I would have to pay tax on that. But the other option was to invest another altcoin. So basically, to look around and find a coin that looks promising and then invest in this. But I didn't want to do that. If I pick a coin that I think is promising and I think the price will rise over time. The reason that I'm going to think that is because I expect there to be growth and I expect there be user adoption and I expect there to be popularity and I expect the public to find it interesting and so on. But all of those are very uncertain things. It's basically betting on what the public is going to do and betting on what's going to be popular. And that is basically a gamble. Whereas the reason that bitcoin price goes up once every four years is because the supply gets cut in half. That's very reliable and solid. It's not a bet. You don't have to speculate much to expect that the price of bitcoin will rise after the rate of supply gets cut in half. Basically, that was the situation that I was finding myself in. And I realized that the ideal solution to this would be to have another investment that I could switch from bitcoin to, which would then be like a delayed version of bitcoin. And that would be a way to escape from the bear market. That's where comes after bitcoin bull market. But because it's difficult to do that with bitcoin, I created four tokens using smart contracts. And I was actually able to do that because tokens that are produced by proof of work mining had recently been introduced in 2018, OX bitcoin came into existence, and it was a minable token. So, most of the cryptocurrencies that are mined, the mining and the proof of work is used to secure the blockchain. And that's basically one of the major purposes of it. But with minable tokens, the blockchain is the Ethereum blockchain. So, you don't need the proof of work to secure the blockchain. And instead, the proof of work is to provide a cost of production to the tokens which supports their economic value. So basically, it was because Ox Bitcoin had found a way to implement proof of work mining with tokens that it was easy for me to create seasonal tokens. Because when I initially tried to make a copy of Bitcoin, what I found is that there are 40,000 lines of code and it's incredibly complicated. And it's written in C++, which is a language that's not nice to read, and it's written in Hungarian notations, which is a very strange and obsolete way of writing code and makes it unpleasant to read because all of the variables look like strings of random letters and it's very hard to understand what's going on. Also, when you want to make a cryptocurrency like Bitcoin by forking the code and setting up a new blockchain, you also have to set up a peer-to-peer network to distribute the blockchain. You have to have to have wallet software, you have to have block explorers, you have to have a website where people can explore the blockchain. And setting up all of that is very complicated and expensive. And what also you have to do is you have to have enough mining power to prevent 51% attacks where somebody who has more computational power can rewind your blockchain and reverse transactions and effectively steal money. So, in order to prevent that from happening, if you are starting a new blockchain, you have to keep the hash power high enough that other people can't feasibly get more hash power. So, you have to be basically one of the biggest entities out there in terms of hash power. And in order to support hash power at that rate, it would be necessary probably to rent it. And that would mean that there would be continuous, ongoing expenditure of money just to rent enough hash power, just to keep the blockchain secure. 1s So basically trying to do something like seasonal tokens where each token was a cryptocurrency coin with its own blockchain and using proof of work to secure the blockchain, that's something that would fail eventually. Basically. That's why I decided to use the smart contracts once I realized that it was possible to do it that way. 

Polar: Okay, yeah. So, it sounds like a very innovative way to achieve one of the dreams of the investors, actually the dream of all investors, that's for sure. I hope that this will come through. We'll find out very soon. I think that I have heard the answer, actually the answer to this question, but what are actually the main differences between seasonal tokens and most cryptocurrencies? 

Ruadhan: Well, most cryptocurrencies that covers a lot. I think the difference between the tokens and other minable cryptocurrencies is that the tokens are smart contracts and they're running on the Ethereum blockchain. So, the proof of work mining isn't used to support the security. And the difference between the seasonal tokens and most other ERC-20 tokens that are issued on Ethereum and other blockchains. The difference is that the seasonal tokens are mined using proof of work and most of those aren't. So that's, I suppose, the main structural difference between seasonal tokens and either cryptocurrencies that are mined or tokens that aren't mined. But the other difference, I suppose from an investment point of view is that if you're investing in another cryptocurrency, then what you're doing is you are expecting the price of that cryptocurrency to go up and that's where you expect to get your profit. You're going to buy the cryptocurrency and hold it while the price rises and then sell it to make a profit. And that's the way that it's intended to usually work. Whereas with seasonal tokens, there's a way for you to make a profit that isn't dependent on the prices of the tokens rising over time. You don't need continual price rises in order to make an ongoing profit measured in tokens. What you can do is you can sell tokens for more tokens of a different type. And so, you can trade winter tokens for spring tokens, for example. And because winter is more expensive than spring, you get more tokens in total and then you can do that again later. You can trade spring for summer and then you can trade summer for autumn when each token goes from being the cheapest to being the most expensive. And you can trade it for the cheapest token and then you get more tokens and tokens. So, because you can continue to do this, that means that the number of tokens and the investment continues to increase over time. And that means that you don't need to rely on the prices of the tokens increasing because the number of tokens is increasing. So, your investment can grow in value even if the prices of the tokens stay approximately constant over the long term. 

Polar: Okay, this definitely makes sense. And brings me to the next question. Even though I believe that you have somehow answered it, but it would be good if we can try and answer it in one simple sentence or probably two. What's actually the main problem that seasonal tokens is solving? 

Ruadhan: That's a good question. Trying to find a simple answer. Let me think. I think, yeah, maybe you expressed well yourself when you said this is kind of an attempt to construct the ideal investment. So, it's not trying to be money. So, Bitcoin and a lot of other cryptocurrencies that are intended to be used for payments, that's where the value in them comes from. But with seasonal tokens, if there's no aspiration for them to be used as payments, you're not going to go shopping and pay with seasonal tokens, although they can be used for that. If you can find a shopkeeper who will accept seasonal tokens, then you can pay. But yeah, that's not where the intended value is coming from. They're basically designed to be investments rather than money. And so, each token, you invest your spring tokens into summer tokens and then when your summer tokens become more expensive, then you can invest those into autumn tokens, and they can continually reinvest. So that's kind of the process that's involved. So, I hope that answers it. That's probably if I say anything more, then I'm not giving a short simple answer. 

Polar: Yes, absolutely. I think that we can just recap that probably the main problem that Seasonal Tokens is trying to solve is to have something reliable as an investment, which I think is connecting very well with my next question. You have said that seasonal tokens is designed to be as an investment, right, not a gamble. So, can you share more about this concept? Not a gamble, but an investment.

Ruadhan: Yeah. So, when somebody is using their money to try to get more money, they can invest or they can speculate and something is considered to be more of an investment if it's got more security, if there's some kind of reason to believe that you're not going to lose the principle that you invest. So, you invest some principle, and you hope to make a profit, but you also want to not make a loss and you don't want to put your funds at risk. So, what you want in an ideal investment is you want the value of the investment to take a look over time and to never go down. That's what you would want in an investment. Whereas if you're gambling, then what you're doing is you're making it bet and you're willing to accept a loss if the bet goes wrong. So, you're speculating that a price is going to rise until and so you buy some of that token and if the price falls, then you've made a loss. So, this is essentially the main difference. There's a risk of loss when you're gambling and when you're investing, you’re trying to eliminate that risk of loss. And with the tokens because you can follow the rule: only trade tokens for more tokens of a different type. So, you trade winter for spring when winter is more expensive than spring, and that means that you get more tokens in total. So, if you follow that rule, then the number of tokens in the investment will increase with every trade and it will never go down. So, this is a property that you're looking for in an investment. Obviously, you would like it to be going up and measured in external currencies like dollars or Ethereum or whatever, but it's not possible to do that. What you can do is guarantee that the number of tokens in the investments will keep increasing. And that is basically an innovation and it's something that seasonal tokens allows people to do. 

Polar: Yeah, it definitely sounds like a very different thing. I believe that most investors in crypto, if we can call them investors after your explanations, are actually doing mostly gambling than investing. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Ruadhan: I think you're right there. I think it's unfortunate that there's been some cryptocurrencies and many cryptocurrencies have been very good investments. But yeah, when people are investing in cryptocurrencies, a lot of the time, basically they are anticipating that there will be a crowd that will come along and will buy that cryptocurrency and it will become popular, it will go to the moon. And I think it's not a safe and wise way to invest. It is gambling, basically, because every time you're hoping that something is going to happen in the future, and you are kind of risking a loss if it doesn't happen. So, yeah, I'm afraid that happens to be the case. 

Polar: Yes, it sounds like I'm also a gambler, but this is another topic. So, it sounds that you have gone through a lot of things to come up with the idea of seasonal tokens, and I suppose you have also spent a lot of time developing it and as far as I know, seasonal tokens had started the previous year. So seasonal tokens have been online a good amount of time for a crypto, I would say probably like centuries in the crypto world. So, I'm sure that there were some good but also bad times. So, my question is related to that. Through all these good and bad times in seasonal tokens, have you learned anything particularly helpful about the crypto space? 

Ruadhan: You mean helpful for people starting their own projects? 

Polar: Yeah, people starting their own projects. And also, it would be nice if you have learned something about investments too. 

Ruadhan: Okay, well, about investments, to be honest, I haven't tried to invest in anything other than bitcoin and seasonal tokens. I think what's happened with seasonal tokens has gone well. Something that I've learned is that if you have a good idea, then you can make it happen, I suppose. The thing that was most helpful for me was probably understanding smart contracts and understanding learning solidity and learning how to write contracts and how to deploy them and how to use them and how they can interact with each other and what you can do with them. Basically, it drastically expands what you can do with cryptocurrencies. Well, they're introducing innovations to bitcoin now that will make smart contracts possible on the bitcoin blockchain. But before Ethereum came along, there was basically cryptocurrencies that didn't have much functionality, they could just be sent from one person to another and that was pretty much it. But now that we have smart contracts, it's possible to make cryptocurrencies very easily by making tokens and the amount of code that you need to write a token is much less. So, for example, the seasonal tokens code there, it's only a few hundred lines of code for each token. So, there might be maybe 300 lines of code, I can't remember exactly. It could be 300 lines of code that it took to write the entire set of code for the seasonal tokens, whereas the bitcoin code that I was trying to use to make another copy of bitcoin when the project was first conceived, that was 40,000 lines of code and it was very difficult to handle. 

Polar: Yeah, it definitely makes sense. So, if I understand you right, one of the most helpful things that have learned about the crypto space is the many possibilities that actually the current smart contracts are giving you. 

Ruadhan: Definitely, yes. And also actually, maybe just one thing that just came to mind as well is yield farming. So, we created a farm for the seasonal tokens and that brought a lot of liquidity into Uniswap. Because of that, the tokens have prices, they have market prices. And their market prices started to evolve in time as people traded on Uniswap. And that was what made the seasonal tokens basically have prices that were close to their theoretical values because there was liquidity and people were buying and selling every day. And so, there was the cost of production from mining and the liquidity of the trading that was going on Uniswap. Those interacted and they brought about this. You can see it on the website. If you go to seasonaltokens.org/charts, you can see the historical prices of the tokens relative to each other. They've been pretty stable since farming started. If there hadn't been a farm, then it would have been difficult to get the seasonal tokens to have any prices and to be any kind of a usable investment. So farming was something that was able to solve that problem very quickly and to create an efficient liquid market pretty quickly. 

Polar: We have a second thing, combining smart contracts with farming sounds like a good couple. 

Ruadhan: Yeah, I think all the farms are done through smart contracts. 

Polar: Okay, that's definitely really good to know especially if you are trying. To start a new project. So, everything sounds very, very interesting and promising to me. I hope that our listeners will think the same way. But, what does the future of seasonal tokens look like? 

Ruadhan: Well, in the short term, it's going through a crypto winter, a very dark crypto market where basically all the prices are depressed, but nobody wants to invest in anything, and everybody is tight on money, everybody is running out of money, and everything is getting more expensive and people are worried and they don't really have money to invest in speculative repair projects. So, in the immediate future, what we're going to be doing is just focusing on building and supporting the infrastructure of the tokens and making it easy for people to trade on different platforms and to trade on different blockchains and so on. So that's what's going on in the immediate future. And in the longer term, what we'll do is ultimately presuming that we get to a big enough size. We can try to make ETFs, which are exchange traded funds. It's difficult to get approved for an ETF for cryptocurrency, but there have already been Bitcoin ETFs approved and they're already in existence. Because the tokens are mined, using proof of work just like Bitcoin is, they fall under the same regulatory regime they're classified as commodities instead of securities. And that means that it will be possible to follow in Bitcoin’s footsteps and basically make ETFs the same way that Bitcoin did. We know that the problems that the regulators have with cryptocurrency will already be addressed when they were approving the Bitcoin ETFs. So that's basically a long-term plan. And what that will do is that will allow institutional investors, basically everybody who's trading on stock markets like New York stock Exchange or whoever, to be able to access the tokens and to add them into their portfolios. And that would mean that they can hedge their existing investments which have some seasonality. For example, if you have agricultural investment, or if you have airline investment, or if you have something that does well at certain times of the year, it doesn't do well during other certain months, then you can take the seasonal token that's expected to increase in price compared to the others during that time period and add it into your portfolio. And then the portfolio overall won't be expected to go down in price as much during that period. Because despite your main investment or your principal investment being expected to go down, you'll have another component that's expected to go up during that time.

Polar: Actually, this sounds really enthusiastic to me. But do you know what will it actually take for seasonal tokens to become an ETF? How many people or how big should it become? 

Ruadhan: I think it will really mostly come down to the market cap. So, the market cap will have to grow to prove. Billions, several billions of dollars in order to make that worth doing. But once it's worth doing, it will be very much worth doing. 

Polar: Yeah, absolutely. If you are able to achieve this, I'm sure that early investors will be more than excited, I would say, and a lot more profitable than in a lot of crypto’s that they can invest in at the moment. So, it sounds like a very bright future. I hope that this will be achieved and I'm sure that you have the best chances for that. Where can people find more about seasonal tokens?

Ruadhan: So, they can go to our website, that's seasonaltokens.org. And if they want to, there's lots of information on the website, but on the website, there are links to the white paper where they can read the full technical specification of the tokens and they can also read the audits and the details about the farm and they can learn about the economics. And if they want to learn more, if they want to talk to the people who are involved in the project, they can join our Discord. There's a link to Discord on the top of the website and there's a great community on Discord and anybody who wants to really get involved and to learn a lot can join Discord and you can just watch, or you can get involved in the conversation and you will learn a lot about the tokens.

Polar: Okay. I think that it's good for our listeners to know that you are not alone in this project and there is actually a team with you. And of course, I'm not hiding this, that I'm also part of the team and I have the honor to be the CMO of the project. Something that I think I forgot to mention in the beginning, but that's definitely true. So maybe with very few words, it would be nice before we finish with the last question to just mention with few sentences about the team that is helping.

Ruadhan: Absolutely, yeah. So, we have a fantastic team. So, one of the first people to join the project was Tears and he's worked on a lot of projects in the past and he's the community manager and he's basically organizing everything on Discord and is essentially keeping the server running and keeping it working nicely. And he was able to use his connections and his Discord skills. He was able to bring in a crowd of people using an invite contest, I think, and we had a large number of people turning up on the server and getting interested in the project and we've got more team members from this. Logitech was one of the first to join after this. And actually, it may have been Logitech, I can't remember, it may have been Logitech who was involved in the invite contest as well. But after that when we had a larger crowd of people on the server, then we had Holdimir, I think he's title is Community leader and he's on discord. He's been great. He's been able to bring in new people and he's started new initiatives and he's been posting on Reddit, and he's actually posted a series of articles on Reddit that have been very good. They've chronicled his experiences with the project, and it's been interesting to read those because you can look back at the good times when mining was cheap and was possible. They were very profitable and unfortunately, it's hard to mind now because of competition. So that was Holdimir brought in or made contact with other people who then joined the team. So, there's Trinity, who's also on discord. She's our investor liaison and she's our lead tech guru. And we have Mouph, who's one of our Discord experts and who's also a moderator. And we have helping hand. And I hope I'm not forgetting anybody. We have Dromakat who is helping us out with videos and with social media and with Twitter and Reddit. And we also have Leogal who's got some experience in finance, who is helping also with some social media. And we have other people who are involved. Robot is involved as well. He's not an employee, but he is basically an expert and he's knowledgeable. He's on the team and he's helping with all of the technical issues. I'm afraid I can't remember everybody. We have a lot of people. There's actually a large community, there's thousands of people on Discord and there are people who contribute a lot. And I hope I haven't missed out anybody important. 

Polar: Yeah, it sounds like a big team, and I know that from first experience that we are a lot of people, and we all want this project to succeed because it's innovative. I'm sure that people have already understood this by listening the podcast. So, what are your final words to our listeners? What do you want them to know more? 

Ruadhan: I would say that if the listeners are interested in investing in the tokens, then they should do it slowly over time because the market cap at the moment is very small. The market capital a million and a half dollars at some point. But with the market crash recently, now it's down to probably $400,000 somewhere around that. So that means that if you want to invest $50,000 in the tokens, then you're going to shoot the price of whatever token you buy up by a huge amount and you'll be paying a lot and you basically will get a bad deal. But what you can do if you want to spend per, for example, that amount is you can do it slowly over time by maybe $1,000 or less than that or slightly more whatever each day or every few days and just make small regular purchases. And what will happen is that every time you make a small purchase, you'll change the price a little bit. But then miners are producing tokens and selling tokens every day, so they're going to push the prices back down. If you buy a lot of tokens all at once, then you'll push the price up, but the price won't stay high because miners will produce tokens cheaply the next day and the price will just drop down again. So, it's not a matter of just trying to get lots of people to rush in and buy as many as they can and shoot the price up to the moon. That's going to be bad because people will be paying a lot for tokens and then the price will just drop down again afterwards. So, the way to invest sensibly is to just do it regularly and do it slowly over time and small amounts and allow the price to recover after you've made your purchases. So, I think that's basically the most important thing for investors to know. I don't want to mislead investors and tell them that this is going to go to the moon immediately because it's a long-term project. Just to get through one cycle of the seasonal token, the price oscillations one cycle is three years long and the mining of the token is going to be going on for 200 years. So, it's a very long-term project and it's not intended to be something that's going to go to the moon immediately. It's a get rich slow scheme instead of a get rich quick scheme. So, getting rich slow is reasonable and that's a feature of investment. If you're investing, then you have to be patient. You can make a profit, but you can't make an instant large, quick profit. You have to be patient and you have to put your money somewhere and allow it to grow slowly over time. And that's basically what the tokens are for. So, because it's an investment, it's not for people who want to get rich immediately. 

Polar: Yeah, the other thing sounds more like gambling, right? 

Ruadhan: Exactly. Yeah. 

Polar: So, I think that these were very surprising words to me because I have watched many interviews, I have listened to many podcasts, and all the owners of the projects that have been interviewed, they have been finishing with invest as much as possible in our project and forget about everybody else. You're saying something completely different like educate yourself, put a small amount of money, and don't be in a rush. I don't think that people expect to hear something like that because everywhere we have been bombarded with messages like invest everything, you can become rich tomorrow, you don't have to wait, and things like that. And in the next morning you wake up and you are in debt. So, I think that's you are a very wise man and people should carefully listen to the whole podcast because I think that this is the way to sell your project. Help people to educate themselves. Don’t make them put all their hard-earned money and expect to be millionaires in a week or two. Just give them the right expectations and give them the knowledge that they need in order to succeed. And don't over promise because you are misleading. So, I definitely believe it and feel it and thinking that you are a very wise man Ruadhan, and it was amazing pleasure for me to have you as a first guest on Seasonal Tokens podcast. I hope that you have enjoyed it too. 

Ruadhan: I have enjoyed it and that's very kind of you to say. Thank you for having me on. 

Polar: Yeah, it was my pleasure. Thank you very much again. This was all for the first episode of Seasonal Tokens podcast. If you like what you have heard and want to hear more, just subscribe in the podcast and expect the next episode in the next week. So, thank you very much. I'm Polar, the CMO of Seasonal Tokens, and I'll talk to you soon. Have a great day. Bye.